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I'm down with fairness, but I worry that the use of the term "fair" will have us be made equivalent to kids shouting "no fair" on the playground.

Marty Johnson

You are absolutely right on the tolerance thing. Democrats (in obvious broad, general terms) are the party that tolerates EVERYTHING. There is no right or wrong- just things that should be tolerated, except of course if it has anything to do with Christianity (And that even comes from Democrats who ARE Christians.) or hearing viewpoints and ideas that do not mesh with your own. Then those are definitely intolerable.

I hope that was helpful, because that is my take on Democrat tolerance.

Fairness? I agree with Lauren. And besides, who says that the Republicans and those of us who vote that way in any given election cycle believes we are not fair?

I think you've got the right idea here though. Keep working it an perhaps you'll come up with something that will bring me back into the fold. I won't bet my house on it, but I know eventually you will come up with someone I can vote for.


I think one of our big mistakes is that we tend to think that they'll react to this sort of thing, that everyone, naturally, believes we should have a fair playing ground. The sad part is that they don't expect to ever have a fair playing ground, and think anyone asking for one is just being a wimp.

I don't think we'll be able to win people back until we learn how to talk to their values with our words. Fairness isn't the issue if you think that gays are an abomination. It isn't an issue if you think that abortion is murder, and it certainly isn't an issue if you think that going to Iraq is protecting the country.

Not that I know what the answers are, precisely, I've been beating about for the right words, myself... I think most, if not all, of us have. :)


I've been thinking about this... like everyone else.

First, a few responses to the commenters above. I don't think we should use the word "fair". But I do think it could be the core principle underlying the messages we do have. Before we figure out how we're going to say what we're going to say, we have to figure out the "what" and there should be a few basic themes that run through what we say. If we have identified these core principles - or really values - then they shouldn't have to be addressed directly.

It's like brand marketing. Apple is a good example. When you think of Apple you tend to think of innovation, quality, non-conformity, ease. They don't say "we innovate, we're high quality" et al. But these concepts underlie just about everything they do and say. Their brand communicates their values.

We on the left aren't lacking values. But we may not have identified the core values that permeate through all our positions. I think fairness (another way of saying equality) is one of those values. And I like fairness because it is universally accepted and it applies across all subjects.

As for speaking about their values with our words, specifically abortion and gays, I say it's a lost cause. We're never going to win the argument with those who vote on an anti-abortion line because they think abortion is murder. We're never going to win the argument with those who believe gays are an abomination and let that determine their vote. We have to have a response that's consistent with our core values, but we won't win them over. They simply demand that we agree with them and we won't.

We can, however, win over those who agree with those people but don't let it drive their vote,those who believe that their religion calls them to take care of the poor and needy, to turn the other cheek, et al. That's our target market.


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